Transcript chunk part3_46-69min.md

Transcript chunk part3_46-69min.md

[00:46:03–00:46:06] in your life, the more that you realize you don't have to win,

[00:46:06–00:46:09] certainly not every deal point and you don't have to win every negotiation.

[00:46:09–00:46:12] So don't think of it as a competitive game.

[00:46:12–00:46:16] This idea about, so I just like this quote, don't wrestle with pigs.

[00:46:16–00:46:18] You get dirty and they enjoy it.

[00:46:18–00:46:21] So be very careful who you negotiate with.

[00:46:21–00:46:23] And that means generating options.

[00:46:23–00:46:27] That means always having other people to talk with and to do business with.

[00:46:27–00:46:31] It is the worst thing in life is to get in business with people

[00:46:31–00:46:35] that don't have the same values you have that you don't respect.

[00:46:35–00:46:37] I mean, it is misery.

[00:46:37–00:46:40] It's a different kind of misery from just about everything.

[00:46:40–00:46:44] You know, except being married to somebody who makes you miserable.

[00:46:44–00:46:48] Then this idea of being reputation building.

[00:46:48–00:46:50] I've given you my examples of that.

[00:46:50–00:46:53] But here are some alternative reputations you have.

[00:46:53–00:46:55] One is I'm tough.

[00:46:55–00:46:58] I'm unbending the legal documents governed.

[00:46:58–00:47:00] I've known a lot of people who are that way.

[00:47:00–00:47:05] Often they're people who have a lot of money and a lot of attorneys.

[00:47:05–00:47:08] And they really believe that's a smart way to do is guess what happens.

[00:47:08–00:47:11] In the end, they may not have a lot of money.

[00:47:11–00:47:13] They may not have the same position of power.

[00:47:13–00:47:18] And they may not have a friend when things go against them.

[00:47:18–00:47:20] Live by the sort, die by the sort.

[00:47:20–00:47:21] You can be flexible.

[00:47:21–00:47:26] Be reopen to reworking the life company joint venture partner I told you about.

[00:47:26–00:47:28] Who just said take notes, Joel.

[00:47:28–00:47:32] Turns out he was one of the most flexible partners you could ever have.

[00:47:32–00:47:35] So the documents were the documents were the documents.

[00:47:35–00:47:36] He couldn't negotiate them.

[00:47:36–00:47:39] He didn't want you to negotiate and just take notes.

[00:47:39–00:47:45] But when it came to working out the problems of living in the real world of doing business,

[00:47:45–00:47:48] he was extraordinarily flexible.

[00:47:48–00:47:50] And so I kept doing business with him.

[00:47:50–00:47:54] I probably did 25 deals with him over my life in real estate.

[00:47:54–00:47:57] Because he was such a great partner.

[00:47:57–00:48:01] He was a tough negotiator, documentary, but he was a great partner.

[00:48:01–00:48:07] You can have this reputation of being eager to make deals.

[00:48:07–00:48:09] Where you just say I do a lot of singles and doubles.

[00:48:09–00:48:10] I don't do home runs.

[00:48:10–00:48:16] The other is that there are some people in the negotiating world who just say I only do home runs.

[00:48:16–00:48:20] If I don't get a forebagger, if I don't hit a home run, if I don't win,

[00:48:20–00:48:22] the thing that's the only deals I'll do.

[00:48:22–00:48:26] So you need to decide what your reputation is there.

[00:48:26–00:48:29] We've talked about these last couple.

[00:48:29–00:48:34] The last one is this Fisher and Yuri trained problem solver.

[00:48:34–00:48:37] We'll talk for a second about Fisher and Yuri.

[00:48:37–00:48:38] Yeah, Connor.

[00:48:38–00:48:44] I was talking about basically being selected about making a decision.

[00:48:44–00:48:51] What do you do when you're in a situation where let's just say there is a vendor that you need to question at?

[00:48:51–00:48:57] And you really need to think there's not another alternative out there.

[00:48:57–00:48:59] You don't agree with their values.

[00:48:59–00:49:02] What do you do in that kind of situation?

[00:49:02–00:49:05] In some cases you just have to suck it up and negotiate with them.

[00:49:05–00:49:08] You can get another party in the organization.

[00:49:08–00:49:09] You negotiate with.

[00:49:09–00:49:16] In other cases you can talk to them and say here's where I think our conflict is going to get to a deeper level and talk with them about that.

[00:49:16–00:49:21] I used to know a partner that would say that people, you know, we're not making a deal on this.

[00:49:21–00:49:23] What would it take to make a deal?

[00:49:23–00:49:25] That was effective in certain circumstances.

[00:49:25–00:49:34] What would it take to get this relationship on a better footing or to develop a more long lasting give take relationship?

[00:49:34–00:49:37] And sometimes you can get that real with people.

[00:49:37–00:49:42] My view is going back to the very beginning is generate options.

[00:49:42–00:49:47] So you don't have one vendor that you really rely on or one alternative source of financing or one.

[00:49:47–00:49:50] I mean I like having a lot of options.

[00:49:50–00:49:55] So I realize that's a bit of a Pollyanna.

[00:49:55–00:49:57] You can't always do that.

[00:49:57–00:50:03] I mean we just did a deal on one of the companies I'm involved in where they were about 40% of our business.

[00:50:03–00:50:06] They were really important.

[00:50:06–00:50:08] We had to get that deal done.

[00:50:08–00:50:12] So consequently we took notes and got the deal done.

[00:50:12–00:50:13] So you're going to do some of that.

[00:50:13–00:50:16] There is not a panacea to every negotiating problem.

[00:50:16–00:50:18] You are going to deal with difficult people.

[00:50:18–00:50:20] You're going to have win-lose negotiations.

[00:50:20–00:50:22] You're going to have some things that you dread.

[00:50:22–00:50:23] Whatever.

[00:50:23–00:50:26] But I'm just saying you can nudge it so that it's a happier experience.

[00:50:26–00:50:28] It's a more of a win-win experience.

[00:50:28–00:50:30] And a better you choose party.

[00:50:30–00:50:35] So here are mine sets that I've got when I go into negotiation.

[00:50:35–00:50:36] What time do we end, Marcello?

[00:50:36–00:50:38] Where do Marcello go?

[00:50:38–00:50:39] At 12th.

[00:50:39–00:50:41] So we have to deal with.

[00:50:41–00:50:44] Are you happy until then or are people wanting to get out of here?

[00:50:44–00:50:45] Okay.

[00:50:45–00:50:47] Well let's talk a little bit about these.

[00:50:47–00:50:52] And one of the mine sets that I think is a really good mindset is that

[00:50:52–00:50:55] an negotiation is just a conversation.

[00:50:55–00:50:56] It's just an exchange.

[00:50:56–00:50:58] You're good at conversations.

[00:50:58–00:51:00] You talk to people all the time.

[00:51:00–00:51:03] So this idea of oh my gosh we're going into a room.

[00:51:03–00:51:04] We're closing the doors.

[00:51:04–00:51:07] We're sitting on opposite sides of tables.

[00:51:07–00:51:12] You know that feels a lot more threatening than I'm just going to talk about our

[00:51:12–00:51:17] various interests and try to have a conversation to come up with something that's

[00:51:17–00:51:19] mutually satisfying.

[00:51:19–00:51:22] So think of negotiations as conversations and you're good at.

[00:51:22–00:51:25] Think of negotiations as a series we've mentioned.

[00:51:25–00:51:30] Think that agreements, it's back to this idea of what is winning.

[00:51:30–00:51:35] The idea is that your agreement should be durable.

[00:51:35–00:51:40] There's no point in coming to an agreement that it terminates in a lawsuit six

[00:51:40–00:51:41] months later.

[00:51:41–00:51:43] You've not negotiated a good agreement.

[00:51:43–00:51:46] So you want them to be some elasticity.

[00:51:46–00:51:47] Some sense.

[00:51:47–00:51:52] And usually that is a function of how much trust you've developed with your

[00:51:52–00:51:53] opposite party.

[00:51:53–00:51:58] If you've developed very high trust with your opposite party, once you come to an

[00:51:58–00:52:02] issue, the first instinct isn't oh my gosh let's go to the documents.

[00:52:02–00:52:03] What are the documents say?

[00:52:03–00:52:09] Most of the good deals I've ever made have never once referred back to the

[00:52:09–00:52:10] documents.

[00:52:10–00:52:11] Not once.

[00:52:11–00:52:13] And some of these things have lasted 25, 30 year.

[00:52:13–00:52:15] I mean my whole business career.

[00:52:15–00:52:19] We never ever once go to the documents.

[00:52:19–00:52:20] Why?

[00:52:20–00:52:22] Because we like and trust each other and these are real issues.

[00:52:22–00:52:24] And we sit down and we talk it through.

[00:52:24–00:52:26] So you want a durable agreement.

[00:52:26–00:52:28] So that's another mindset to have.

[00:52:28–00:52:31] Another mindset is this thinking win-win.

[00:52:31–00:52:35] Another one is to recognize that you're accountable.

[00:52:35–00:52:38] A lot of times people think as the negotiate, they're only accountable

[00:52:38–00:52:39] themselves.

[00:52:39–00:52:41] I'm winning for me.

[00:52:41–00:52:45] They're very rare negotiations where you don't have broad accountability.

[00:52:45–00:52:46] It's your employees.

[00:52:46–00:52:48] It's to the community.

[00:52:48–00:52:49] It's to shareholders.

[00:52:49–00:52:50] It's to a board.

[00:52:50–00:52:59] Sometimes this can be a very effective not in the room party that you can use to give you some breathing room to pause and say,

[00:52:59–00:53:00] well I can't.

[00:53:00–00:53:02] I wouldn't feel right about this because of either community.

[00:53:02–00:53:06] I don't really feel good about dumping this sludge into the river.

[00:53:06–00:53:08] You know, I mean you really have an account of it.

[00:53:08–00:53:13] So this idea that there's an accountability outside your own interest is a good mindset to have.

[00:53:13–00:53:23] Watching your language, I don't think it works to curse, scream, swear, slam doors, walk out of rooms.

[00:53:23–00:53:25] Even bluff.

[00:53:25–00:53:29] I think bluffing is a fool's game.

[00:53:29–00:53:34] Because all you need to do is bluff once and have it not happen and you have spent your reputation.

[00:53:34–00:53:37] You are forever more seen as a bluffer.

[00:53:37–00:53:40] So my view on that is just never bluff.

[00:53:40–00:53:43] Never use what I call high velocity words.

[00:53:43–00:53:50] Just you think of the words that just sort of raise people's emotional attention and their temperature.

[00:53:50–00:53:52] Just stay away from them.

[00:53:52–00:53:54] And if somebody uses them on you, ignore it.

[00:53:54–00:53:56] Don't let it work on you.

[00:53:56–00:53:58] Don't let your temperature rise.

[00:53:58–00:54:01] So watch your language and watch.

[00:54:01–00:54:05] What if you're like an idiot said and you get frustrated?

[00:54:05–00:54:07] You're not going to forget.

[00:54:07–00:54:11] You're not going to be thinking that you try to control that at all costs.

[00:54:11–00:54:13] I think you should try to control it.

[00:54:13–00:54:15] And here's why.

[00:54:15–00:54:19] And as part of it is you're setting a baseline.

[00:54:19–00:54:24] Whatever your baseline is, it's the variation from your baseline that will get effect.

[00:54:24–00:54:30] So if I say to you, I will never agree to that.

[00:54:30–00:54:32] That's pretty powerful.

[00:54:32–00:54:37] If you've negotiated with me a lot of times, for me to say, I will never do that.

[00:54:37–00:54:40] I mean, you really believe, I've just screamed that out.

[00:54:40–00:54:46] Whereas if I'm throwing things around and cursing and a lot of histrionics, I can shout

[00:54:46–00:54:47] out never do that.

[00:54:47–00:54:49] And you'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

[00:54:49–00:54:50] He'll come back tomorrow.

[00:54:50–00:54:56] So I think keeping the baseline, keeping the baseline really low is a very smart thing to do.

[00:54:56–00:54:58] Plus it keeps your own blood pressure down.

[00:54:58–00:55:00] So I did walk out of it.

[00:55:00–00:55:04] This billion dollar deal that I did out here, where we were swapping a billion dollars

[00:55:04–00:55:05] with a property.

[00:55:05–00:55:07] I sat with the partners in the room.

[00:55:07–00:55:09] There were six of them and one of me.

[00:55:09–00:55:14] And the most senior of them just said something that was just completely off the wall

[00:55:14–00:55:16] and unfair.

[00:55:16–00:55:17] And I just stood up.

[00:55:17–00:55:21] And I said, gentlemen, it's been a pleasure to be your partner all these years.

[00:55:21–00:55:24] I'm so sad that it has to end this way.

[00:55:24–00:55:28] I'm catching my plane and I'll be gone.

[00:55:28–00:55:31] Give me a call in Dallas if you want to talk about this.

[00:55:31–00:55:32] It was that simple.

[00:55:32–00:55:37] Before I could get to the airport, I had a call from three of these partners to say,

[00:55:37–00:55:38] please come back.

[00:55:38–00:55:39] We wanted to go shoot this.

[00:55:39–00:55:41] And it wasn't that I had gotten up.

[00:55:41–00:55:43] I stood up when they said it.

[00:55:43–00:55:44] I'd left the room.

[00:55:44–00:55:46] But my speech was really that calm.

[00:55:46–00:55:51] And I think they took that as, oh my gosh, he is serious.

[00:55:51–00:55:53] He is really serious.

[00:55:53–00:55:56] And that's the message that I'm really serious.

[00:55:56–00:55:58] That's the one I wanted to get across.

[00:55:58–00:56:01] Not that I'm chapped and I'm out of control.

[00:56:01–00:56:04] Because people don't trust that as much.

[00:56:04–00:56:06] In the end, this idea of being trusted.

[00:56:06–00:56:10] If you really want to be an effective negotiator, be trusted.

[00:56:10–00:56:13] If the other party can trust you, over the long run,

[00:56:13–00:56:16] you'll develop that brand and you'll develop durable agreements,

[00:56:16–00:56:20] high-trust relationships, creative solutions,

[00:56:20–00:56:24] relationships with others that you like, et cetera.

[00:56:24–00:56:28] So I'm just recommending it as a different mindset than a lot of people have towards it.

[00:56:28–00:56:29] Yeah.

[00:56:29–00:56:31] I just want to hear it first out.

[00:56:31–00:56:32] I say, oh, I'm really good.

[00:56:32–00:56:35] You're in America and it's something you're less than Europe.

[00:56:35–00:56:36] I work all in the world.

[00:56:36–00:56:40] Getting aid remained, may not work, but it's not a big surprise.

[00:56:40–00:56:41] What happens?

[00:56:41–00:56:42] The rest of the world.

[00:56:42–00:56:45] I mean, if you're always calm, it translates across all cultures.

[00:56:45–00:56:46] Yeah.

[00:56:46–00:56:47] Yeah.

[00:56:47–00:56:48] It's kind of a universal language.

[00:56:48–00:56:49] Clarity?

[00:56:49–00:56:52] Looking over something, in some cultures,

[00:56:52–00:56:53] is just I absolutely don't know.

[00:56:53–00:56:55] And you've lost it completely.

[00:56:55–00:56:56] You're very very very, very good.

[00:56:56–00:56:59] Your student's an unstable person.

[00:56:59–00:57:01] Oh, might or might not I forget you?

[00:57:01–00:57:02] Depending on the industry.

[00:57:02–00:57:03] Yeah.

[00:57:03–00:57:08] Some industries are full of wild people.

[00:57:08–00:57:09] Yeah.

[00:57:09–00:57:12] We negotiate through an intermediary,

[00:57:12–00:57:14] an investment banker, an agent,

[00:57:14–00:57:19] and a attorney who's actually negotiating an agreement,

[00:57:19–00:57:23] would you use this as a model for buying first,

[00:57:23–00:57:24] selecting an intermediary?

[00:57:24–00:57:26] Because that person can often have a tremendous impact

[00:57:26–00:57:28] on your branch as well,

[00:57:28–00:57:30] because they might act completely,

[00:57:30–00:57:31] and they're off on their own.

[00:57:31–00:57:33] You don't really know exactly what you need either.

[00:57:33–00:57:35] I think you have to be very careful

[00:57:35–00:57:37] in who you select, because they carry your brand.

[00:57:37–00:57:41] I've seen more attorneys follow up deals

[00:57:41–00:57:42] than actually facilitate deals.

[00:57:42–00:57:45] In fact, I select my attorneys in terms of,

[00:57:45–00:57:47] are they deal facilitators?

[00:57:47–00:57:49] Are they deal makers problem solvers?

[00:57:49–00:57:53] Or are they sort of Eagle Mediacs who have to be right

[00:57:53–00:57:54] on every deal point?

[00:57:54–00:57:56] We have to draft the toughest document.

[00:57:56–00:57:57] A lot of times what you'll do in deals

[00:57:57–00:57:59] is you'll get attorneys fighting.

[00:57:59–00:58:00] And the attorneys will,

[00:58:00–00:58:03] and it'll destroy the deal in the relationship.

[00:58:03–00:58:08] So number one is I try not to have very many intermediaries

[00:58:08–00:58:09] on the front line.

[00:58:09–00:58:13] I don't like to have agents, brokers, investment bankers,

[00:58:13–00:58:15] or attorneys negotiating my deals.

[00:58:15–00:58:18] I like to establish a one-on-one relationship

[00:58:18–00:58:20] with the other principal in deals.

[00:58:20–00:58:24] I really think that's the safest way to maintain your brand,

[00:58:24–00:58:27] and it's the way to create better relationships,

[00:58:27–00:58:29] to create better outcomes.

[00:58:29–00:58:31] It's more work in the short run.

[00:58:31–00:58:33] It's less work in the long run.

[00:58:33–00:58:38] I think there is a reason that people use these intermediaries,

[00:58:42–00:58:44] and I think they can be valuable,

[00:58:44–00:58:47] and I think it's always smart to have somebody outside the room,

[00:58:47–00:58:50] because negotiations are these real-time things

[00:58:50–00:58:51] where you're exchanging things back and forth,

[00:58:51–00:58:53] back and forth, back and forth,

[00:58:53–00:58:54] and you can make mistakes,

[00:58:54–00:58:56] and it really helps to have somebody,

[00:58:56–00:58:57] whether it's a board, a partner,

[00:58:57–00:58:59] an attorney, or whatever,

[00:58:59–00:59:02] who can come in, refine, correct, smooth over.

[00:59:02–00:59:04] I don't like to use them in all those things.

[00:59:04–00:59:05] A lot of times I'll say,

[00:59:05–00:59:07] I need to run this by my partners, or I'll need to,

[00:59:07–00:59:09] I'd be, this makes sense to me,

[00:59:09–00:59:12] but let me check with the attorney or tax counsel,

[00:59:12–00:59:13] or my accountant on this.

[00:59:13–00:59:16] So I like to have a little bit of a background.

[00:59:16–00:59:17] So I use them that way,

[00:59:17–00:59:18] but I never put them and say,

[00:59:18–00:59:20] my attorney will negotiate with your attorney

[00:59:20–00:59:21] and make a deal.

[00:59:21–00:59:23] That is very dangerous.

[00:59:23–00:59:25] It's not to say it doesn't work, yeah.

[00:59:25–00:59:27] Any questions regarding this idea of,

[00:59:29–00:59:31] not really going above or below this time?

[00:59:33–00:59:36] And as someone, I'm very emotive,

[00:59:36–00:59:37] that's who I am,

[00:59:37–00:59:40] and what I'm hearing is,

[00:59:40–00:59:42] poker phase, try not to be hooked into these things,

[00:59:42–00:59:44] try not to be emotional,

[00:59:44–00:59:45] which to me is really like,

[00:59:45–00:59:48] if you said, the best way to negotiate

[00:59:48–00:59:50] is if you're six foot tall, and I'm five feet tall.

[00:59:50–00:59:52] So that to me, it's like, okay,

[00:59:52–00:59:56] I agree, I can see how that would be effective.

[00:59:56–00:59:58] How should you just not six feet tall?

[00:59:58–01:00:00] Yeah, I'm not six feet tall.

[01:00:00–01:00:02] And I think you start out by being yourself.

[01:00:02–01:00:04] Authenticity is something that will be measured

[01:00:04–01:00:06] by the opposing party,

[01:00:06–01:00:09] which will go back to trust a lot.

[01:00:09–01:00:13] I'm just saying that you can modulate.

[01:00:13–01:00:17] You can keep the swings from being so wild,

[01:00:17–01:00:19] and that will help you.

[01:00:19–01:00:21] It won't make you six feet tall,

[01:00:21–01:00:23] but it may make you five foot too.

[01:00:23–01:00:25] So either hand, go up and down.

[01:00:25–01:00:26] I think you need to be yourself.

[01:00:26–01:00:28] I mean, I'm demonstrative too.

[01:00:28–01:00:30] I mean, I speak with my hands.

[01:00:30–01:00:31] I wander around.

[01:00:31–01:00:35] I get excited about, I mean, it's who I am.

[01:00:35–01:00:38] So I am that, but I just say there are certain things.

[01:00:38–01:00:41] There are certain thresholds that I don't want to cross,

[01:00:41–01:00:43] because I spend a lot.

[01:00:43–01:00:44] If I crush those thresholds,

[01:00:44–01:00:47] I've spent something that doesn't return to me,

[01:00:47–01:00:48] what it's worth.

[01:00:48–01:00:50] So if you're all over the map around like that,

[01:00:50–01:00:52] you just need to realize you're spending something

[01:00:52–01:00:54] that's pretty valuable,

[01:00:54–01:00:56] and you don't have any place to go.

[01:00:56–01:00:57] Once you've cranked the volume up all the way,

[01:00:57–01:00:59] there's no place to go.

[01:00:59–01:01:00] So leave yourself a place to go.

[01:01:00–01:01:02] And I think moderating,

[01:01:02–01:01:04] that in the final one is be likable.

[01:01:04–01:01:06] And I know this is,

[01:01:06–01:01:09] I mean, you didn't come to Stanford to hear, be likable.

[01:01:11–01:01:12] But when I went through litigation,

[01:01:12–01:01:16] I remember talking with,

[01:01:16–01:01:21] I think it was opposing counsel after it was all over again.

[01:01:21–01:01:24] And he said something like, you know,

[01:01:24–01:01:27] I wanted to hate you.

[01:01:27–01:01:29] I really wanted to be as angry at you

[01:01:29–01:01:33] as the plaintiff was.

[01:01:34–01:01:36] He said, but I couldn't help,

[01:01:36–01:01:39] but kind of liking you.

[01:01:39–01:01:41] And he said, and he said, I didn't want it,

[01:01:41–01:01:42] it influenced me on a professional,

[01:01:42–01:01:43] and I did my job,

[01:01:43–01:01:45] but it still had an impact.

[01:01:45–01:01:46] So I talked to my attorney about it.

[01:01:46–01:01:48] And he says, you know, I've had the same experience

[01:01:48–01:01:49] where I've got,

[01:01:49–01:01:52] and he'd deposed Ivan Boseki.

[01:01:52–01:01:54] I mean, you go down the list.

[01:01:54–01:01:55] People, he'd been through a whole bunch of them.

[01:01:55–01:01:57] And he said, you know, certain of them

[01:01:57–01:01:59] were really likable scoundrels.

[01:01:59–01:02:01] And it made a difference.

[01:02:01–01:02:04] And others, you know, you just wanted to fry.

[01:02:04–01:02:06] And so this idea there is something,

[01:02:06–01:02:09] you know, even the most jaded,

[01:02:09–01:02:11] professionally trained litigator who does

[01:02:11–01:02:15] gladiating for a life.

[01:02:15–01:02:17] You know, says it makes a difference

[01:02:17–01:02:18] if you like the other party.

[01:02:18–01:02:21] So I think there is almost no upside

[01:02:21–01:02:24] in being a jerk and being a turkey.

[01:02:24–01:02:26] I just don't think it gets you anywhere.

[01:02:26–01:02:27] Well, we're about out of time.

[01:02:27–01:02:29] Well, let's just see if we've got any more of these.

[01:02:30–01:02:35] We've talked about agents, being a principal.

[01:02:35–01:02:38] We've talked about lawyers as memorializers or agents,

[01:02:39–01:02:40] disputes.

[01:02:44–01:02:45] You know, this is in the far end

[01:02:45–01:02:47] of the formal end of negotiation

[01:02:47–01:02:49] with the immediate arbitrator litigate.

[01:02:51–01:02:56] I guess my advice on that is they're all kind of bad

[01:02:56–01:02:58] outcomes and you really want to avoid,

[01:02:58–01:03:00] you really want durable, flexible agreements

[01:03:00–01:03:02] and trust relationships.

[01:03:02–01:03:05] If you have to get to these litigation

[01:03:05–01:03:08] and arbitration are not that different

[01:03:08–01:03:11] in terms of arbitration may be a little shorter

[01:03:11–01:03:12] and a little less expensive,

[01:03:12–01:03:15] but you're still presenting information

[01:03:15–01:03:17] under rules of evidence,

[01:03:17–01:03:21] typically to a special master or a rented judge

[01:03:21–01:03:22] or something.

[01:03:22–01:03:23] So it's a very much the same kind of thing.

[01:03:23–01:03:28] Mediation, that negotiation is a split the baby negotiation.

[01:03:28–01:03:31] So if you're right, you're gonna lose half.

[01:03:32–01:03:34] So I think you just want to be,

[01:03:34–01:03:38] so this is again in this very stylized formalized way.

[01:03:38–01:03:43] The rules of those negotiations very much narrow your outcomes.

[01:03:43–01:03:45] So just be aware.

[01:03:45–01:03:46] Implementing the agreement,

[01:03:46–01:03:49] flushing out hidden agenda items outbursts

[01:03:49–01:03:51] from the material that we've kind of talked about,

[01:03:51–01:03:53] all of those I think.

[01:03:54–01:03:55] So Fisher and Yuri,

[01:03:57–01:03:58] is everybody in here red,

[01:03:58–01:04:01] how many of you have read getting to yes?

[01:04:02–01:04:04] Only a few of you.

[01:04:04–01:04:06] But maybe so old that people don't read it.

[01:04:06–01:04:08] It's still the classic book.

[01:04:08–01:04:09] I'm gonna go,

[01:04:09–01:04:10] I would recommend it to all of you.

[01:04:10–01:04:12] We want to become a better negotiator.

[01:04:12–01:04:15] We're written in 1981 by Fisher and Yuri,

[01:04:15–01:04:17] two Harvard lawyers,

[01:04:17–01:04:19] and they talk about their negotiation

[01:04:19–01:04:22] and the salt talks and a lot of data

[01:04:22–01:04:24] on really sort of what works and what doesn't.

[01:04:24–01:04:27] They wrote another book called Getting Past Know.

[01:04:27–01:04:29] So getting to yes is the first one,

[01:04:29–01:04:30] getting past know is the second one.

[01:04:30–01:04:32] Actually, the second one,

[01:04:32–01:04:33] though much less red.

[01:04:33–01:04:34] In fact, is there anybody in here

[01:04:34–01:04:37] that's red getting past, okay, great.

[01:04:37–01:04:38] Not very many people have read it.

[01:04:38–01:04:40] It's actually I think even a better,

[01:04:40–01:04:41] more insightful book.

[01:04:41–01:04:42] If you've done a lot of negotiating,

[01:04:42–01:04:47] those are two really sort of good, practical, academic texts

[01:04:47–01:04:48] that give you a good map.

[01:04:48–01:04:51] And I can usually tell when I'm negotiating with somebody

[01:04:51–01:04:53] who has studied Yuri in Fisher.

[01:04:53–01:04:55] It's a different kind of a negotiation.

[01:04:55–01:04:56] It's actually quite pleasant.

[01:04:57–01:05:00] So here's the, if you don't want to read it,

[01:05:00–01:05:02] here's the reader's digest version.

[01:05:02–01:05:04] Saving you time.

[01:05:04–01:05:06] You thought you were wasting an hour with me.

[01:05:06–01:05:08] I'm gonna save you a couple hours.

[01:05:08–01:05:10] Basically, the idea is separate the,

[01:05:10–01:05:12] so here are the four fundamentals.

[01:05:12–01:05:14] Separate the people from the problem,

[01:05:14–01:05:15] which a lot of people don't do.

[01:05:15–01:05:16] They merge them.

[01:05:16–01:05:18] You know, the problems thorny.

[01:05:18–01:05:19] Therefore, I don't like the people.

[01:05:19–01:05:23] The people who have this issue that has brought before me,

[01:05:23–01:05:25] because I don't like the issue or it's putting me

[01:05:25–01:05:26] in an awkward position.

[01:05:26–01:05:28] I also don't like those people.

[01:05:28–01:05:30] You know, so there's a lot of confusion.

[01:05:30–01:05:31] So they say separate those two.

[01:05:31–01:05:33] Then focus on interests, not position.

[01:05:33–01:05:36] In other words, what would you like to see at it?

[01:05:36–01:05:38] Not what position are you going to take?

[01:05:38–01:05:39] Or is the other party gonna take?

[01:05:39–01:05:42] Because positions are not necessarily related

[01:05:42–01:05:44] to what are really in your interests.

[01:05:44–01:05:48] People express positions that may not be the actual

[01:05:48–01:05:50] endpoint that reflects their interests.

[01:05:50–01:05:53] Then invent options together for mutual gain,

[01:05:53–01:05:56] where you think outside the box, you invent options,

[01:05:56–01:06:00] and then insist, if you can, this is the hardest one for me.

[01:06:00–01:06:02] It's figuring out objective criteria.

[01:06:02–01:06:05] You know what, what would be a winning deal?

[01:06:05–01:06:06] What would work?

[01:06:06–01:06:09] And then assess your deal against these objective criteria.

[01:06:09–01:06:13] That is the hardest one for me, but I've seen it work.

[01:06:13–01:06:14] And then finally for me, I'd say,

[01:06:14–01:06:15] know your bat and that.

[01:06:15–01:06:17] Figure it out, write it out.

[01:06:17–01:06:20] Know what going in, and my corollary to that,

[01:06:20–01:06:22] is calculate the other party's bat.

[01:06:22–01:06:24] So you really know that it's not life or death.

[01:06:24–01:06:27] There are alternatives, and you'll be more likely

[01:06:27–01:06:29] to have successful negotiations.

[01:06:31–01:06:34] Now, I'm gonna show you there, these are the, again,

[01:06:34–01:06:36] more fissure and yurry things.

[01:06:36–01:06:39] But if you'll just, this is how they deal

[01:06:39–01:06:41] with some of these dealing with problems and framing things.

[01:06:41–01:06:44] So I'm gonna flash this slide up and one other slide up.

[01:06:45–01:06:49] And then have you think about what else this relates to.

[01:06:49–01:06:52] You know, discuss each other, don't blame the opponent,

[01:06:52–01:06:55] see the opponent's intentions, see the situation,

[01:06:55–01:06:57] you know, from their perspective,

[01:06:57–01:06:59] give them a stake in the outcome.

[01:07:01–01:07:04] You know, don't react to provocation step away,

[01:07:04–01:07:07] don't respond reflexively, be an active listener,

[01:07:07–01:07:09] agree when you can.

[01:07:09–01:07:10] I used to have a friend that I negotiated,

[01:07:10–01:07:12] a guy that became a friend that I negotiated with,

[01:07:12–01:07:14] who would start out every negotiation

[01:07:14–01:07:17] with all of the things we agreed on.

[01:07:17–01:07:19] So that you'd go through 10 items.

[01:07:19–01:07:21] It's like, okay, we agree on this, we agree on that.

[01:07:21–01:07:24] And you've got in this reflexive habit of just agree.

[01:07:24–01:07:25] Okay, I agree to that.

[01:07:25–01:07:26] That works, I agree to that.

[01:07:26–01:07:28] That works, okay, that's good.

[01:07:28–01:07:31] And you'd get down to then number 11 and 12 and 13,

[01:07:31–01:07:33] which were the tough ones.

[01:07:34–01:07:38] So these are things that yurry and fissure discuss.

[01:07:38–01:07:41] So what, you know, I guess I'll just tell you

[01:07:41–01:07:42] because we were out of time.

[01:07:42–01:07:45] My take on this is marriage.

[01:07:47–01:07:49] You know, this is how I've made a marriage work

[01:07:49–01:07:53] for 35 years is basically doing these things.

[01:07:53–01:07:57] And most of the relationships you're in

[01:07:57–01:07:59] are subject to negotiation.

[01:07:59–01:08:01] And if you kind of listen to these best practices,

[01:08:01–01:08:04] your life will work better, your relationships will work better,

[01:08:04–01:08:07] and your conversations will be happier,

[01:08:07–01:08:09] your agreements will be more durable.

[01:08:09–01:08:13] And most of the time, you'll feel like you won.

[01:08:13–01:08:15] Most of the time you won't feel dirty,

[01:08:15–01:08:17] like you need to take a shower.

[01:08:18–01:08:21] And negotiations won't be just eating your broccoli.

[01:08:21–01:08:23] That will be something that gives you life,

[01:08:23–01:08:27] election express creativity, and build relationships.

[01:08:27–01:08:31] So I'll hang around here after if any of you want

[01:08:31–01:08:33] to discuss this or have any questions,

[01:08:33–01:08:34] but thank you very much.